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lou

It shouldnt be surprising you use much more signaling in the PS domain since you use the PS domain much more.

Then there is signaling and there is signaling. One thing is moving from cell-pch to cell-dch to get/send ps data (very little sign), another is idle to dch to get sms or calls (alot of it). If anything the ps domain is always more signaling efficient because the dormant states like fach and pch allow transition to full service with much less signaling. Of course this is only the case if fch/pch timers are adequate and u dont get sent to idle after 10 secs of PS inactivity.

On the issue of the fast dormancy i disagree with ur assessment-as i think it is a bad idea. More and more apps use push, so the phone has no real idea when it is the time to go to idle. Furthermore it makes it impossible for operators to tune their NW via fach-pch timers, and you wil get a race to release so that battery stats are better than competitors. Leave the radio resource management to the RAN, it is better that way when no one really knows what will happen at the app layer


Dan

A quick note - Fast Dormancy is far more damaging than not, in terms of signaling cost since in most situations it doesn't respect the radio characteristics - in your example Fast Dormancy would make it even worse.

Martin

Hi Dan and Lou,

I respectfully beg to differ. From an overall system engineering point of view that takes the requirements of the mobile device and the user experience on all devices into account, it is a most beneficial feature. I have laid out my reasoning in detail here: http://tinyurl.com/2e6dxkt

Cheers,
Martin

Dan

Well having to deal with a live network in both GSM and UMTS I can see the implications of fast dormancy played out for real - I can assure you it is not a happy marriage :)

The article you linked was good - but I find no mention for example of relative cost (in terms of load) comparing establishments versus switching (for one example) - and bear in mind any costs saving in terms of either power or resource is likely to be outstripped by the increase volume of signaling.

The main issue if the whilst fast dormancy is perhaps an efficient way to a degree of optimising performance (though FACH tuning or TAC aware systems liable to be better) they are used in conjunction with highly "chatty" smart devices, so efficiency's are often masked or even swamped to a negative result.

Dan

part b ;)

I find it questionable that the battery savings in devices such as the iPhone or Android systems are anything like the claims, very little data shows a comparison in a real life situation (often showing power draw against FACH / IDLE / URA in a quasi realistic setting).

I could debate this for hours as it has become something of a passion in work and life but I have to go, but will leave you with this thought - the impact to RNC's of higher number of simultaneous connecting devices (one of the key implications of FAST dormant "smart" devices), when in most vendor minds (and models) the exact opposite ie a mobile broadband setup was expected - and what that means for areas such as RANAP control, etc

Filippo

Interesting debate: I wonder if anyone has got an idea of what the ratio of the signalling of PS control plane and that of applications is... such as number of application signallig messages vs one PDP context. I would expect around 10:1 from what I see from Gn interfaces.

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